Re: [Amc-list] Fw: Intake question

[RAY MICK <rmick@xxxxxxx>]

After reading this I can see that if I want to use this manifold I  
will not be able to use my cowl induction air cleaner on my Javlein / 
AMX without some heavy mod work
On Nov 24, 2008, at 10:35 AM, RetroRalph wrote:

> See below for the article by John Elle...
> ______________________________________________________________
> Ralph Ausmann  -  Hillsboro, OR - > http://mysite.verizon.net/res79g4m
> ____________________________________________________________
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joe Fulton
> To: AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans.
> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 7:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Intake question
>
> I think John Elle posted about the differences in height a couple of
> years ago.  If you have access to an archives CD you might check it.
> Otherwise, I think Ralph Aussman (sp?, sorry Ralph) still vends the
> archive Cds.
>
> Joe Fulton
> --- On Sun, 11/23/08, RAY MICK <rmick@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> From: RAY MICK <rmick@xxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [Amc-list] Intake question
>> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 6:50 PM
>> Any one know how much taller an Eddelbrock air gap intake is
>> compared
>> to a stock AMC V 8 manifold?
>> Ray Mick
>> The older I get the faster I was.
>> Somewhere in Kansas
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
> (From Archives CD Files)
>
> |\ From: John Elle <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Edelbrock Air Gap on a Mark Donohue!!!!
> Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:27:00
> This is information on installing Edelbrocks new Air Gap Manifold
> #7531on my 1970 390 equipped Mark Donohue with the ram air hood  
> package.
> I might point out here that I purchased my manifold from Randy Guynn  
> at
> Performance American Style where I placed my name on a list there and
> when things arrived, they were sent out. I received both good service
> and value for my money. Thanks Randy.
>
> First let me make this perfectly clear. This manifold will not clear  
> the
> ram air package on such equipped cars. Secondly, boy howdie, does it
> look good installed. Talk about oooooo-aaaaah factor at the cruise  
> night
> along with the newest and latest state of the art intake manifold.
>
> Plan A
> Step one on the installation as done by me!:
> 1. Carefully make all of the measurements that involve locating the  
> air
> cleaner bowl in relation to the gasket of the Ram Air package on the
> hood and clearance for the chrome air cleaner to the inside of the air
> duct.
> 2. Record all data prior to disassembly
> 3. Disassemble factory 4bbl manifold and all supporting hardware and
> double check measurements only to discover you made them in such a way
> that they proved to be totally useless.
>
> Revert to Plan B
> 1. Install new Edelbrock air gap manifold. I used the Fel-Pro gasket  
> set
> #MS96011, which is the valley pan gasket set. I installed using a
> combination of instructions on sealents. Those that came with the  
> gasket
> set and those that came with the instructions from Edelbrock. I used
> Form-a-gasket #2 on the intake ports both sides of the metal valley  
> pan
> gasket and the RTV recommendation along with the rubber end gaskets  
> that
> came with the Fel-Pro gasket instructions.
>
> I am not sure if it was correct or not, being some where in my fading
> memory bank it was a recommendation to use large flat washers under  
> the
> hold down screws rather than lock washers when you are working with
> aluminum, so I did to. I also used Form-A-Gasket #2 on the threads of
> all bolts as a form of sealant and sort of a lock tite situation.
> The results of step one:
> Everything fits, nothing leaks (when run) looks killer good.
>
> Step 2.
> For the Oil Fill Pipe I used a length of plumbing pipe, chrome plated
> brass, that was cut to length and installed.
> Step 3.
> Verify hood closes. It doesn't
>
> Step 4
> Make new measurements and rediscover the air cleaner bowl is too  
> high as
> is the filter element. The manifold raises everything quite a ways.
>
> Step 5
> Now before I continue with step 5 let me identify the variables that I
> am working with
> 1. I am using  71 and up Free Flow Exhaust Manifolds
> 2. I am using an aftermarket stove pipe kit that allows me to use a  
> flex
> hose on the existing heat stove on the free flow manifolds and a  
> step up
> coupler on the inlet of the air horn on the Factory Air Cleaner bowl  
> so
> the heat riser is on the car and satisfies smog requirements where
> needed. The following steps are also valid if you are using the  
> stock 70
> Heat stove and riser.
>
> I am also using a Carter 625cfm AFB carburetor. If any one is using a
> Holley and the dimensions are different or for some reason the Holly  
> is
> not plumbed like a Carter all bets are off.
>
> Step 5 again
> Object, Lower the carburetor away from the hood.
> Accomplished by removing composite material spacer between the
> carburetor and the intake manifold. This can be done for two reasons:
> Reason 1. The composite spacer has the PCV manifold connection on it.
> The Carter AFB has the same thing in the carburetor body on the rear.
> Remove plug, insert appropriate fitting and done.
> Reason 2. Composite spacer servers to isolate the carburetor from heat
> generated by the exhaust cross over for carburetor heating in the  
> stock
> manifold. The Air gap does not have this feature so there for it does
> not have the heat problems.
> Advantages, drops the carburetor height the distance of the spacer.
> Also, I do not have a dire need for the exhaust cross over heat  
> function
> as it is over 100 degrees today, that is hot enough and part of the
> reason for purchasing this manifold is that it does not have this  
> cross
> over heat function. Also the heat riser valve assembly was removed  
> some
> 20 years ago so I do not have to worry about whether it functions or
> not.
>
> Step 6.
> Identify interference with air cleaner bowl to hood. Yupper, it has
> interference, and quite a bit.
>
> Step 7.
> Purchase the lower plate for one of Edelbrock's after market air
> cleaner. The plate is designed to drop the position of the air  
> filter in
> relation to the carburetor for tight hood clearances. The important
> thing here is that you need a 14 inch diameter bowl to mate with the  
> Ram
> Air Gasket, so I bought one that would take a 14 inch filter. The
> thought process is to cut the center of the bowl out and rest the
> outside part on the bottom plate assembly. This same lower plate can
> come in two variations. A small rise, suitable for use with Holley  
> Carbs
> or a high rise for clearance of Carter/Edelbrock carbs.
>
> This is the distance of the mounting flange on the top of the
> carburetor. It is imperative that you have the correct unit for your
> carburetor. If you have the one for a Holley, and adapter spacer can  
> be
> purchased for it for use on a Carter/Edelbrock. Note, the flat part of
> this lower plate extends out in a radius around the carburetor  
> before it
> drops down for the filter/hood clearance. This is large enough to  
> set a
> 10 inch filter on. And what size does the factory used for the ram air
> cleaner? A 10 inch filter unit naturally.
>
> O.k., I now have the carburetor as low as it can go on the engine.  
> Next
> to see what kind of distance I need between the hood gasket and the
> bottom plate. This is determined by a little sleuthing, such as
> inverting the air AMC air cleaner bowl and setting it on the lower  
> plate
> only to discover that the hood will not close. The height of the bowl
> sides want to be about 1/2 inch lower.
>
> I now have two choices. Cut the center out of the AMC are cleaner bowl
> and using a few body tools, roll the edge down about 1/2 inch and try
> again. But this would mean cutting up my Stock AMC RAM AIR bowl.
> Something I would like not to do if I ever want to put he engine  
> back to
> stock. Soooooo! on to Step 8...
>
> Step 8
> I measure the height of the Stock AMC air cleaner bowl and it 3 5/8
> inches tall. I jump in the trusty van and hi tail it to Cottonwood to
> B&R auto salvage to see what I can find. 2 hours later I pull in the
> yard and talk to Bob and he tells me to wander around and see what I  
> can
> find.
>
> After a number of false starts I find an air cleaner bowl off of a  
> 1966
> Plymouth 318 2bbl car that has a 14 inch diameter. I check the height,
> it 3 1/8 inches. By doggies, that is what I was looking for, about 1/2
> inch shorter in height and 14 inches across so it will mate with the
> gasket on the ram air.
>
> Step 9
> I hurry home and proceed to hog the center out of the Plymouth Air
> cleaner bowl so it will sit in the air filter support of my chrome
> plated Edelbrock low profile air cleaner lower plate. I trial fit to
> car. Hood does close. Using some crumpled up aluminum foil I determine
> that clearance and fit to the gasket is acceptable. You place crumpled
> up aluminum foil on the edge of the air cleaner and close the hood.  
> The
> squish factor tells you what clearances there is.
>
> Step 10.
> I carefully measure and drill holes and using a bead of RTV around the
> circumference I pop rivet the modified air cleaner bowl to the  
> Edelbrock
> low profile lower plate. I then unbolt the air horn that goes onto the
> Stove pipe riser and pop rivet it over the opening on the side of the
> Plymouth bowl after I have removed all unneeded Plymouth hard ware. I
> now have the bottom half of a working ram air cleaner bowl.
>
> Step 11.
> By carefully measuring again I determine that I need a 10 inch in
> outside diameter, 7 3/4 inch inside diameter, 2 inches tall air  
> cleaner
> filter element.
>
> A call to my friendly car quest store with this request and Jim  
> says. "
> Call me back in 20 min.1" I wait, call him back and he says it is on  
> the
> way from the warehouse now.
>
> Low and behold when I go down, there is an air filter element, Car  
> Qwest
> number 87912 filter element in a very dusty box. (Shows really slow
> turnover. I have no idea what it is for yet but maybe Randy can figure
> it out. ) It is 2.02 inches tall, 10 1/4 inches outside and a little
> over 7 3/4 inches inside diameter.
>
> Hot diggaties, it fits perfect. A quick run to Ace Hardware for a  
> length
> of 1/4-20 all thread and I have a new carburetor chrome plate top hat
> hold down bolt, install it, tighten the wing nut and everything is
> together and it fits.
>
> Open the hood, it looks factory sort of, satisfies my desire of  
> having a
> working ram air system with the Edlebrock Air Gap Manifold as  
> installed
> on my Donohue.
>
> So like I said when I started off.  The Air gap manifold does not work
> an a ram air hood such as used on the Donohue and related fresh air
> packages for the AMX. But Boy Howdie, it sure looks good when you  
> get it
> installed.
>
> This is what it took me to get this manifold installed as I wanted  
> it to
> be. To emulate the Factory Original Set up. The height problem is not
> unique to the Air Gap Manifold, the Performer had the same problem. I
> just did not want a Performer bad enough to go through this much  
> effort.
> It worked for me. Hope some of this helps you too.
>
> As far as performance results? None yet. I can say that all of my
> carburetor adjutments were on the money when I started the engine. I
> expect the overall performance to be a lot crisper, especially here in
> the heat of the Desert. I will leave it to the dyno people or the
> serious drag racers to give a solid report on the results of this
> manifold. But at the present I have nothing negative to say about the
> product, fit and finish or anything else. It makes me happy and you  
> all
> know, It doesn't take much to amuse us poor folks.
> Have a good AMC day
>
> John T Elle - Peoria AZ - johnelle@xxxxxxxxx
> __________________________________________________________________
>
>
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Ray Mick
The older I get the faster I was.
Somewhere in Kansas

See my AMC's @
http://members.cox.net/rmick/MIDAMERICAAMC%20Folder/Mid%20America%20AMC/My%20Space.html

www.midamericaamc.com




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