Re: [AMC-list] AMC-list Digest, Vol 71, Issue 16

[Johnohsee <johnohsee@xxxxxx>]

Just curious- has anyone seen/heard of/tried dumping a rotary engine into a pacer to see if it would've been an adequate power plant? 


John O'C 

> On Feb 14, 2015, at 15:00, amc-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. LPG/CNG vs. Gasoline (farna@xxxxxxxxxxx)
>   2. Re: 78 amc amx undergoing restoration (Armand Eshleman)
>   3. Re: 78 amc amx undergoing restoration (Sandwich Maker)
>   4. Re: LPG in AMC's was   RE:  AMC-list Digest, Vol 71,    Issue 14
>      (Sandwich Maker)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 08:12:41 -0700
> From: farna@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [AMC-list] LPG/CNG vs. Gasoline
> Message-ID:
>    <e670676db97cbd77c3af601f37b335fd.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
> 
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 12:42:09 -0800
> From: Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: amc <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [AMC-list] 4 barrel intake for a 290
> 
> I keep hearing that yet the most I see is about 10% difference. Less than
> that on a
> higher compression engine unless your LPG is cut with Butane. E85 runs
> 20-30% lower
> economy.
> 
> From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Rambler AMC, Nash, Jeep and family" <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [AMC-list] 4 barrel intake for a 290
> 
> 
> But don't you have to use more gallons of LPG compared to gasoline to go
> the same
> distance?
> Or am I thinking of a different fuel?
> 
> Ken
> ==========================================
> 
> In a dual fuel configuration you'll burn more LPG than gasoline by volume
> to produce the same power/go the same distance. There aren't as many BTUs
> in LPG as in the same volume of gasoline. CNG (compressed natural gas) is
> a bit more than LPG, but much harder to store and needs a heavier vessel
> to carry a comparable amount (of LPG). According to an alternative fuels
> chart (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fuel_comparison_chart.pdf), 1
> gallon of LPG has 73% of the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline, so in the
> same engine (dual fuel setup) you should expect to burn ~27% more LPG for
> the same power/distance. I've heard it being in the 20-25% range --
> depends on vehicle and driving habits as well as load. For ease of math
> figure 25% more. LPG is usually cheaper than gasoline, but it has to be at
> least 25% cheaper to equal costs. Right now gasoline is at a five year
> low, average about $2.20 in the US (national average). LPG is actually a
> bit higher at $2.36 (national average) from what I can find. That's for
> residential heating, not road fuel, which would be a bit more. Typically
> LPG goes down with gasoline since it's a by-product of gasoline, but in
> the middle of heating season it's a bit higher due to demand (less demand
> for gasoline is driving those prices down... for now!). So at the moment
> LPG conversions don't make sense, but that's not likely to last long. For
> comparisons, E85 has about the same 20-25% less power as LPG.
> 
> You can regain that 20-25% loss on a pure propane (or E85) build. Propane
> is 105 octane, E85 is 100-105 (depends on season -- ethanol is reduced to
> 70-75% in cold winter areas, brought back up to 85% in warm weather).
> Since premium gasoline is 93-94, you can build an engine to run at least
> one whole point of compression higher -- around 11:1. The problem is you
> won't be able to run anything less than premium if you can't find E85, and
> that might not even be enough. A pure LPG conversion would have the issue
> of being able to find fuel at all. You're not supposed to run heating fuel
> as there are no road taxes on it. LPG road fueling stations are few and
> far between, and many are only open during regular business hours (9-6 or
> so), so you have to carefully plan your driving. TomJ ran his 63 Classic
> wagon with 232 on LPG for about 10 years as a pure LPG vehicle. Here's his
> conversion info: http://worldpowersystems.com/AMC/LPG/LPG-book-final.html.
> 
> 
> Here's a good report with gas mileage on both gasoline and LPG:
> https://www.utmb.edu/tstem/tstemutil/Uploads/192013_8_41_29_PM_2037Ansis%20MannieRondina_Propane_Vs_Gasoline_2.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 09:16:27 -0600
> From: "Armand Eshleman" <aje1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,    "AMC, Rambler,
>    Nash,Jeep and family" <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [AMC-list] 78 amc amx undergoing restoration
> Message-ID: <9DF8C4114B374B8F8033906D5BA19150@computzer3>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=response
> 
> Interesting work being done, I really like the metal work part.
> 
> I do have a question as I am not that up on Concords. Is this a Hornet with 
> different parts hung on the front end?
> 
> Armand
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <BaadAssGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 7:35 AM
> Subject: [AMC-list] 78 amc amx undergoing restoration
> 
> 
>> Nice to see people taking a interest in some of the other great cars AMC 
>> built, this is a 78 Concord AMX being restored for example. Not a whole 
>> lot of them made you know, I believe 1931 total and guess is less than 200 
>> exist in 2015, not high survival rate, as most want them for 'Concord AMX' 
>> unique parts like air dam, louvers, flairs and dash pieces. Here are some 
>> neat photos a customer, Phil sent me of his ongoing restoration, he will 
>> be adding photos as he goes along.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/tloftus/sets/72157645555444837/
>> 
>> Eddie Stakes
>> 713-464-8825 days
>> www.planethoustonamx.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> AMC-list mailing list
>> AMC-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://list.amc-list.com/listinfo.cgi/amc-list-amc-list.com 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 11:55:25 -0500 (EST)
> From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [AMC-list] 78 amc amx undergoing restoration
> Message-ID: <201502141655.t1EGtP9v006381@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> " From: "Armand Eshleman" <aje1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> " 
> " []
> " 
> " I do have a question as I am not that up on Concords. Is this a Hornet with 
> " different parts hung on the front end?
> 
> yup, reworked, mostly the same.  same for spirit/gremlin.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
> internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 12:04:28 -0500 (EST)
> From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [AMC-list] LPG in AMC's was   RE:  AMC-list Digest, Vol
>    71,    Issue 14
> Message-ID: <201502141704.t1EH4SqF006436@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> " From: "Stu Fitchett" <amckiwi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> " 
> " []
> " 
> " 
> " My daily driver is a Holden (Pontiac GTO) Ute with a Chev L98 in it running
> " Liquid Injection LPG.
> " 
> " I have a custom tune in it and it has 10 more rwkw and 25more rwNM of torque
> " than on petrol, it uses between 5-10% more fuel than on petrol, lpg is
> " approx. 50% of petrol here.
> " Down side is conversion is very expensive
> 
> i understood that lpg needed special injectors because its lubrication
> qualities aren't the same as gasoline/petrol, and because of the
> frosting effects of near-instant vaporization.  is this not the case
> anymore, or are such injectors now readily available?
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
> internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought
> 
> 
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> End of AMC-list Digest, Vol 71, Issue 16
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