AMC-List Digest, Vol 3, Issue 54
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 3, Issue 54
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- Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 02:03:26 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. NOS AMC Bucket seat, black but what car is it for?
(hal.lynch@xxxxxxx)
2. Re: re wheel stud spins - front drum (Mike Kindle)
3. E - 85 'The Cool Fuel' (Brien Tourville)
4. AMCer Kindle needs to move inside Los Angeles area (Mike Kindle)
5. Fw: oil line photo wanted (Eddie Stakes)
6. John Mahony's Posts (Mr. AMC)
7. LPG conversion reasons (Brien Tourville)
8. Re: Anyone in NY have a 401 block for sale (Matt Haas)
9. Re: E85 and Old Cars (Matt Haas)
10. Re: E85 and Old Cars (Matt Haas)
11. Re: E85 and Old Cars (farna@xxxxxxx)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:11:01 +0000
From: hal.lynch@xxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] NOS AMC Bucket seat, black but what car is it for?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<042620062211.21845.444FEFF50002B63D000055552160281060080C029704D2040E08@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi guys,
I have a brand new NOS black high back bucket seat used by an AMC exec in Kenosha in his rec room. Was never installed in a car, but I don't know what car it is for. If anyone can help, send me your email and i'll shoot you a photo. BTW, the seat is avaialbe for $95.
Hal
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:53:04 -0700
From: "Mike Kindle" <mike90066@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] re wheel stud spins - front drum
To: george.graham@xxxxxxxxx, amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY113-F379FB824A90AE22A0C5300FCBC0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Thanks to Tom J and George Graham for your replies.
(First, I'm not reusing the off-center drums, but some different ones, I
must have mistyped.)
Second, you've confirmed the sinking suspicions I developed while looking
closely at everything last night. I think the factory swedging is what
allowed them initially to use smooth wheel studs, the swedge punch holding
the drum on and keeping the stud from turning. The first replacement would
be knurled, which will cut slots in the hub holes. I think I will source
some new knurled studs and let the drums live unswedged. I have some other
used hubs that have the studs welded on the back to keep them from turning
and the welds pop right off due, I beleive, to someone trying to weld
dissimilar metals, so I want to avoid that, despite having the new welder. .
.
I'm learning a lot this week.
Thanks
Mike
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:58:59 -0400
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] E - 85 'The Cool Fuel'
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <444FC2F3.11259.6919D6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
E85 may have a performance advantage in forced induction engines.
Ethanol has ~ 2.6 times the latent heat of vaporization (Btu/gallon),
and
the heating value of ethanol is only ~.6 of the heating value of
gasolene
(Btu/gallon). This means you could expect the intake air to be
significantly cooler when using E85; possibly cool enough to
eliminate the
need for an intercooler. Westech Performance Group measured a
temperature
drop of ~100 degrees from the carburetor enclosure to the manifold,
this
temperature drop was with gasolene, and E85 should cool it further.
There is a problem comparing prices however; (I think Tom Jennings
said
it) 'we buy fuel in gallons but use it in Btu/mile'. Because E85 has
less
Btu/gallon it has to cost less per gallon to cost the same per mile.
Peter Marano
Kenosha WI
++
Guess I won't need those Aluminum Heads
when the Turbos go on.
You can bet this advantage won't be lost on
the Automotive manufacturers.
FYI > : E-85 in Venezuela is $0.17 per gal.
=Bt=
milnersXcoupe
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:39:39 -0700
From: "Mike Kindle" <mike90066@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMCer Kindle needs to move inside Los Angeles area
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY113-F6EB1F85542448B4DDC0B2FCBC0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
The owners of the house I've been renting have decided to sell, and I
suspect I'll be getting a 30 day notice at the end of this month, so the
nightmare of moving begins. Not necessarily off-topic as I'll also be
looking for a new home for my 3 Americans and a Metropolitan. I appeal to
listers for ideas.
The ideal place obviously would have an indoor area to work on the cars, so
small commercial and industrial live-work solutions are possible. Location
should be within easy striking distance of Hollywood and either LAX or
Burbank airport as my various jobs require this. I could transfer my "home
office" and car activities to a shop area and "live" elsewhere, really
anything is possible, though the catch is it would be financially unwise for
me to commit to more than a 800 bucks a month. I know that's unrealistic.
But currently I've been paying 600 a month for the place I'm in, (with a 2
car garage and no street parking restrictions - lucky me!), plus bills.
The other option is to sell the 3 Americans and my bulky parts stash as a
package deal, become strictly a Metropolitan guy, and reduce my work-space
needs, which don't make me any money anyway and eat time, but then we're
getting into the deep issues. . .
Any ideas and suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike Kindle
mike90066@xxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:28:51 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Fw: oil line photo wanted
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <022001c6698b$19dea4b0$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
Anyone have a detailed photo to share with Don please feel free to reply
thanks in advance,
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela L. West" <awest3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: tech
> Ed, I hope you can help me with a tech question. what is the best way to
> remove an AMC v-8 oil fill tube from the intake without crushing it? Also
> where can I find a detailed photo of external oil line(in lifter valley)
> location ? I know it runs from front boss to passenger oil galley , but
> imp unsure of exact location. Thanks Don West Elmwood IL.
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:59:16 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: [AMC-List] John Mahony's Posts
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <16670-44500954-419@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Just out of curiosity do you own or drive an AMC/Rambler? Just curious?
I work on or drive one of the 2 I own 5-7 day's a week.
"Doc"
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:48:21 -0400
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] LPG conversion reasons
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <444FDC95.288.3BF43D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:26:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: anoble savage <savage944@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: We're Entering A New Phase
More thoughts...
4k for a 445 HP/455 ft lbs V8 for your ride - of course not sure
what
would be invested in the car that gets that motor... but how about
this...
A Dodge Turbo MiniVan
Purchase price of the Van, $800
Intercooler, Ford power stroke $230
Piping for the cooler, (est.) $100
52 pph super 60 injectors $135
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator from Duane Snyder $50
Opened up fuel rail $50
Forward Motion Enforcer 2 Turbo $900
Extra fuel injectors from a VW Rabbit $20
Hobbs pressure switch $50
2 stage boost solenoid from a Isuzu Impulse $0
K and N Cone filter Made for a full size chevy $45
Zener Diode for Map Sensor $20
Grainger Valve for boost control $8
Misc. Vacuum line, hose and connectors, fuel lines, etc. $100
HOSE CLAMPS! $100
Balance shafts removed $20
Under drive pulley Forward Motion $130
Head Gasket and bolts $50
G" cast head $400
180 degree thermostat with rubber gasket $10
Custom PCV Valve and Breather $15
Ported Exhaust Manifold from Forward Motion $150
Auto Gauge 20 PIS Boost Gauge $35
Auto Meter Water Temp Gauge $55
Auto Gauge 5 inch Tach with shift light $120
Cyberdyne Fuel pressure Gauge $100
Cyberdyne Air Fuel Gauge $50
Light weight battery, new cables and mount $50
22 inch M/T slicks on donated wheels $300
Full Manual valve body from Turbo Action
Cheeta Valve $150
Front end Alignment to true Zero $50
SUB TOTAL $4288!!
LOW 13s and HIGH 12s
Other items for durability, or maintenance, but MAY not have made
the
van any faster:
Racing Snell 95 Helmet $150
New Clutch packs (4) and seals in transmission $100
New Posi unit from Future Auto $600
New 4 wire O2 sensor $55
New Belts $50
New Axles $170
New Brakes $50
New Brake Disc $75
New Calipers $50
New Brake Hose $15
New Wheel Cylinders (rear) $10
New Ball Joints $150
Orange engine paint $10
New oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, front and rear seals, cam
seal
$100 New ignition system (stock) $75 New radiator $130 New
Radiator
hoses, new heater lines and hose $70 Radiator mount to move
radiator
$4 New BBS Alloy wheels with lug nuts $100 New General H speed
rated
tires $300 Mobil One 10 w 30 oil $20 Fuel filter $20 Full 3
inch
exhaust all they way out the back $100 New Carpet $28 30 PSI
gauge
and pressure switch lights in dash $30
Grand Total $6750
TO RUN HIGH 12s to MID 12s in a MiniVAN
Additional Upgrades for more power:
New custom Computer $300
3 Bar (28psi) Map Sensor Gm part number 16040749 $75
4 new 75 pound per hour injectors $320
New 3 inch mandrel bent down pipe off the turbo $175
New head gasket and transmission freshen up $300
EGT gauge from Auto Meter $120
255 LPH high volume, high pressure fuel pump $120
Magnacore spark plug wires $40
Another O2 sensor $50
Sub Total (add to above total) $1500
THAT?S 8250!!
Turbo MiniVan - running low 12s with full interior and driven to
and
from track, etc... 381 HP & 448 ft/lbs in Street Trim 456 HP and
559 ft
lbs in Race trim Of course a lighter car and better trans
arrangement
would mean a faster ride!
?So much bottom end torque? Torque converters do this really nifty
thing
called torque multiplication, which means your crankshaft torque is
actually amplified in the low RPM range. It doesn't happen all the
way
to redline, of course, but it's a ton of fun while it lasts!
Now lets toss the EFI expense - and do it with carbs - Carb box -
so we
can toss all the extra expense of computers and injectors - replace
them
with a 4 barrel carb or bike carbs - build a box - use a set of
injectors and a single additional injector control to add extra
fuel
under boost.
Or better yet toss the carbs, the efi and the gas tank and
everything
that goes with it. So shave atleast 1 - 2 k off the expense of the
build
up...
Install 2 LPG tanks from a fork lift, a regulators and lines, plus
a
mixer. Since you can get custome mixers up to 1300 CFM - so I
think you
can get r done - even with just one mixer(carb) Draw thru is sweet
with
this setup - since a mixer can be mounted in side draft or down
draft
configurations.... or blow thru - custom billet also is an option.
And for you v8 guys you can do 2 or even three...
For a 4 or 6 cyl a 450cfm unit - works and is a standard size.
Should
be more than enough.... so assuming just one mixer, one regulator
and 2
tanks under 700.00 for the conversion. Cheaper to operate, oil
changes
every 20-30k and the oil looks good and clean, cleaner emmisions -
perks
for alternate fuel vehicle.... what kills me is running 2 bar
hahaha or
similar with high octane fuel - you only have to worry about the
stress
on engine components not so much detonation any more.
Checked with local LPG company 300 gallon tank installed with
lines,
etc.. and filled 650.00 Average cost when buying in bulk 1.00 or
less a
gallon - so an adapter and you fill your own tanks. Use a BBQ tank
as
your emergency gas can.
If you get 30 MPG on Gas and assuming 8/10 the gas milleage on lpg
that
yields 24 MPG of course in some cases you see closer to 9/10.... so
lets
see 2 x15 gallon tanks lets assume LPG cost you 1.50 a gallon vs.
3.0 or
more a gallon... seems like a nice trade off that and the fact that
you
are now running basically race fuel - how can you go wrong?
OH worried about availabilty - with an adapter a bbq tank can be
hooked
up and drained into your tanks. Also the reason I say forklift
tanks -
you can pull them out and take them in, assuming your local spot
wouldnt
fuel your car directly.
Weight? Use the tanks for ballast and traction mount them around
the
tires in the rear.
Also lots of states currently either pay for some or all of the
conversion - so how about that - you get a check back from the
state.
Now imagine your hot rod with just you in it, crusing the HOV lane -
cause most states let alternate fuel vehciles use the HOV lane even
as
single occupancy including the state of FLA - hahahaha.
Kick backs from the feds as well, it is usually tax deductable - oh
and
if your vehcile is part of your buisness even more so....
So how about a 10 second propane powered 4 or 6 cyl hot rod running
propane, natural gas or alchy.... cheap to run, decent gas mileage,
tons
of power, clean buring and money in your pocket.
Thats my idea of a NEW PHASE - a complete conversion package is
about
300-450 dollars without the tanks and tanks you can get used.....
forklift yard anyone - by the way most RV stops have vehicle refuel
stations.
++
yep......... found that on the Internet.
=Bt=
milnersXcoupe
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:32:33 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Anyone in NY have a 401 block for sale
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060426213037.0298cb68@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
I don't know the ins and out of the engine blocks but wouldn't this be a
good use for a pair of sleeves? If not, I'd be interested in the why
(because I'm curious -- good thing I'm not a cat).
Matt
At 07:08 PM 4/25/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>Anyone around New Hartford NY have a bare 401 block
>for sale that could help a Joe Booth out? His
>machinist sonic tested his block before they started
>any machining and found out cylinders 1-4 are already
>too thin at .030 over. He has been trying to find a
>block but has had no luck. A few guys have given him
>the run around so he is getting frustrated. I know we
>have quite a few AMC guys in the NY area.
>
>Here is his contact info:
>
>Dear Nick
>If you happen to know of anyone that would like to
>sell a 401 block please let me know. I'm located in
>New Hartford NY which is central NY, between Syracuse
>and Utica. My phone number is 315 269-3361
>I'd appreciate anything you could do.
>Sincerely
>Joe Booth
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Nick Alfano
>Alfano Performance
>Kenosha, WI. 53142
>262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends
>262-308-1302
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:44:13 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060426213538.0299db80@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
I saw something about this recently and I'm pretty sure they're not using
water to separate the fuels anymore so that's not the problem (they sell
the mixed stuff for industrial applications). The problem as I understand
it is that the ethanol is an excellent solvent and does a really goos job
of cleaning all of the goo out of the pipelines and storage tanks (some
people with old cars are also having a problem with the ethanol breaking up
the sludge in their gas tanks). In some areas of the country where they are
switching from MTBE to ethanol, this is causing big problems with fuel
supply since they are currently having to truck fuel in until the storage
tanks and pipelines are cleaned.
Matt
At 12:42 PM 4/26/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>I did some more reading too. Yes, closer to the "corn belt" where ethanol
>is made it's a bit cheaper. Part of the problem with the pricing in areas
>far from production facilities is transportation. Ethanol or E-85 can't be
>pushed through pipelines because it draws to much moisture along the way,
>so it all has to be trucked or railed around. I'm sure someone will figure
>out a way to either treat it so it won't draw so much moisture and/or
>erect large water separators/filters at pipeline terminals. That probably
>isn't practical now, but as volume goes up it should be. The pipelines use
>water "plugs" to separate "shipments" now since gasoline and water don't
>mix. They'll have to come up with something else (hey, maybe a gasoline
>"plug", or a thicker oil that won't mix easily, even vegetable oil -- the
>"plugs" can be reused...) to separate "shipments" since water mixes so
>well with ethanol.
>
>On April 26, 2006 Todd Tomason wrote:
>
> > The difference in price seems to depend on where you are. When I've
> bought it
> > in Missouri it's between 30 and 60 cents less than gasoline.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Tuesday 25 April 2006 08:15, farna@xxxxxxx wrote:
> > > There appears to be no consumer reason for switching to E85. In the vast
> > > majority of instances E85 prices closely parallel gasoline prices,
> maybe a
> > > few pennies less. I checked pricing on this site (which has other
> info and
> > > links) - http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html.
> The only
> > > reason to switch to E85 is environmental. In the long run using more
> > > ethanol should help US industries other than oil -- especially farming.
> > >
>
>
>=============================================================
>Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist
>
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.wps.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:49:52 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060426213629.0299a128@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Bio-diesel and pure ethanol both have similar problems that dino fuels
don't have -- they both have problems at lower temperatures. Bio-diesel
starts gelling in the low 30's to upper 20's. You can cut it with ethanol
to help (you have to watch how much so you don't put holes in pistons) so
it's really not an option for the northern half (geographically) of the
country for a good chunk of the year. Vehicles using pure ethanol also have
starting problems in the same temperature range. The 15% gas in E85 is
apparently enough to start engines below those temperatures (I think that
was already brought up).
BTW, I'm not trying to poo-poo these fuels but there are trade offs with
everything.
Matt
At 01:03 PM 4/26/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>" From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>"
>" I think Charlie Nash, George Mason, or George Romney
>" would be jumping on the E85 bandwagon today. They
>" might even have a Rambler model called the E85.
>"
>" When and if it becomes commonly available here in CA,
>" I think I'll convert one of my old cars to run on it.
>" Surely a Rambler three speed with overdrive would get
>" decent mileage on it. And it sure beats paying dues
>" to ragheads (excuse me, people with textile headwear)
>" who want nothing from me but my money.
>"
>" Archer Daniels Midland may stand the most to gain by
>" E85 right now, but the technology to make ethanol is
>" pretty simple (although patented biota may complicate
>" the issue in the future). Too many folks know how to
>" set up a little production device in a secluded hollar
>" in the hills.
>
>imho the best fuel with mid-range potential is biodiesel.
>
>you might recall that when you mix lye and tallow, you get soap
>[sodium stearate] and glycerin. wood ash will do; then you get
>potassium stearate. mix alcohol and vegetable oil [or tallow, or any
>other fat/oil] in the right conditions and you get biodiesel and
>glycerin. you can pour it straight into the tank of any diesel - or
>other oil burner, like your furnace - and it lubricates the injection
>system better than petrodiesel, burns cleaner than petrodiesel, and
>even makes more power [a bit] than petrodiesel.
>
>the chemistry is simple and the technical issue of efficient
>manufadture is already being addressed, by many. the biggest hitches
>i see are 'wax point'; without additives it isn't reliably usable much
>below freezing [though additives will surely be developed], and the
>byproduct glycerin. there are industrial and cosmetic uses for it -
>but can you buy enough products to consume a gallon of glycerin a
>week?
>
>an acre of rapeseed [aka canola] produces a ton of oil. an acre of
>oil palms produces 5 tons.
>
>ps. 'b100' is industry shorthand for pure biodiesel. you'll often see
>'b20', 20% bio/80% petro; low temp operation isn't a problem with this
>mix. and btw all diesel jeep libertys leave the factory with b5 in
>their tanks.
>________________________________________________________________________
>Andrew Hay the genius nature
>internet rambler is to see what all have seen
>adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.wps.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:04:59 -0400
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62456UnHAaa0000072d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
By "consumer reasons" I was referring strictly to economic reasons. Transportation makes E85 about the same cost as gasoline on the east coast.
I'm not AGAINST cleaner air, I think we have the technology, just not the motivation. The government is trying -- it has mandated that ALL gas stations must have the ability to fuel with ethanol, and that ethanol must be in all gasoline -- apparently. We just got out of commander's call and were informed that there may be a couple days where the base (consumer) gas station, and even local commercial ones, may be out of gasoline for a couple days while they have their tanks cleaned in preparation of storing fuels containing alcohol. All water has to be removed since alcohol will absorb water. We were told that it's a nationwide mandate that has to be met by 01 May. That might be why the gas companies have been screwing us lately -- in fear (or anticipation) of lesser volume being sold. If they were smart they'd invest in alcohol producing plants (alcohol is supposedly going to be a source of hydrogen for fuel cells as well). If they were advertising such and using those windf!
all profits for that I think they would be a little more publicly tolerated.
Our government is always wanting to stick their fingers into individual, private lives, but seems to be scared to do so with big business. I think that's mostly because to many of our elected officials have stakes in big business. Instead of telling big business what they need to do the gov't tries to offer "incentives" that just don't work anymore. Big business in the US is short sighted -- what will turn a profit now or tomorrow. They don't think about what's going to happen 10-20 years down the road. Some do, but most have lost any vision beyond a five year plan. If George Mason and Romney had thought that way, AMC would have died whne the last of the big Nash and Hudson cars went away, or shortly after.
On April 26, 2006 Tom Jennings wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 04:20, Todd Tomason wrote:
> > The difference in price seems to depend on where you are. When I've bought it
> > in Missouri it's between 30 and 60 cents less than gasoline.
>
> Thats what I read too... and why is cleaner air not a 'consumer reason'
> to run e85? Respecting the issues of old dirt loosening with alcohol,
> etc.
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.wps.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
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