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Today's Topics:
1. Re: I6 Engines.... Why did the starter move around? (Jim Blair)
2. Re: I6 Engines.... Why did the starter move around?
(Sandwich Maker)
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 05:21:30 +0000
From: Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-list] I6 Engines.... Why did the starter move
around?
Message-ID:
<DM2PR0501MB908E7CE82AF9518844622B7AC580@DM2PR0501MB908.
namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
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The one year only small bell '71 258 could have used the Nailhead TH400
adapter set used on the 232 in a few full size Jeeps pre '71 as it tore up
the small BW automatic transmissions and small diameter clutch discs too.
One of the FSJ guys last year sold the 232 motor and Nailhead th400
trans (hopefully a Rambler guy got it and not a Spokane scrap yard), but we
did get a picture to prove it was the early one (starter on left with
adapter ring)
That aside, the IH guys with AMC 6 (232) bet me there was no such thing
as the small bell 258 several years ago.
The few IHs with AMC 401 and 727 used a Delco (Chev) style starter on
the right that should directly swap with the Motorcraft (Ford) one aside
from the built in solenoid.
Hopefully this makes sense as I'm still recuperating from whatever
poison shut my thyroid off about this time last year, ruined my health and
messed my memory up. I had to sell our mobile home and my running vehicles
(still have a couple full size projects to sell as well as our cabin and an
Isuzu NPR diesel that was going to be fixed and swapped into a Full Size
Jeep)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>(Sandwich Maker)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-list] I6 Engines.... Why did the starter move around?
Message-ID: <201702122154.v1CLshC2012479@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
201702122154.v1CLshC2012479@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
" From: A Griffith <amc.rambler.fan@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:
amc.rambler.fan@xxxxxxxxx>>
"
" Does anyone know why on some 232/258 the start is on the driver's side
and on others it's on the passenger side?
the starter switched sides in '72 coincident with the six adopting the
v8 bellhousing pattern. the only early-style 258 was the first year,
'71.
" Some are GM and some are Ford. What's the deal?
whatever they got the best deal on. up to '68 they were delco, but in
'69 - with the same early-style small bellhousing - they were
motorcraft. dunno if they ever went back.
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 08:58:22 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-list] I6 Engines.... Why did the starter move
around?
Message-ID: <201702141358.v1EDwMdo017692@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
"
" The one year only small bell '71 258 could have used the Nailhead
" TH400 adapter set used on the 232 in a few full size Jeeps pre '71 as
" it tore up the small BW automatic transmissions and small diameter
" clutch discs too.
now i have to chime in about clutches... :^>
the standard clutch on the early-bell sixes was a 9 1/8" with a
small-pattern pressure plate.
however, the 199/232/258 flywheel was also drilled and tapped for the
10" pattern, and in amc cars there was a 10" hd option, even with the
15/16" x 10 spline input. it was even used with 2bbl 304s and t14s in
the early '70s. [did jeeps have something like this?]
there are 2 problems with them in sixes: the pp must be an actual 10";
the small bellhousing will not clear a 10.5" b&b [ask me how i know],
which is the common universal replacement, and - in my american, at
least - it has a longer throw, barely within the linkage's range.
i used to have the p/n for the perfection brand 10" pp, but it's
probably been obsoleted and replaced with their 10.5" by now.
the diapragm type of pp has a lower profile and would likely not have
the clearance problem a 10.5" b&b [coil-spring] type has, but i don't
know if it has more or less travel. more would be a problem, but if
it works it opens up the possibility of 10.5" or even '10.95"'
clutches.
there's another possible option. mopar slant sixes only take
small-pattern clutches, but there's an hd setup very widely used for
decades, in small trucks and vans at least, and which first appeared in
late-'60s cars with 273 v8s. it's a b&b-style pp that fits the 9 1/8"
pattern but takes a 10" disk, and afaik it even uses the same to
bearing as amc cars.
some fwd cars also have had the 9 1/8" clutch pattern, and the
performance industry has come up with 9.5" diaphragm clutches for
them.
if either of these last two work at all, they would also work on 196s.
and just btw and fyi, the small clutch flywheel pattern is 6 x 5/16" x
10 5/16", and the medium pattern is 6 x 3/8" x 11 3/8", sae unf iirc.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
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